All part of the game

Where do you come from, and what was the career path to your current position?

I was brought up just outside Glasgow, and studied law at the University of Strathclyde. That was followed by a traineeship with McGrigor Donald, as it was then, and several years with them as an assistant solicitor. I worked in their offices in Glasgow, Edinburgh and London doing corporate work and commercial litigation until I moved in-house for a large inward investment project, then to a listed pharmaceutical development company for a couple of years, before becoming company secretary and the sole in-house lawyer at Celtic Football Club, which is also listed.

After 11 and a half years there I moved to Scottish Rugby a couple of years ago. I now have a wider scope of responsibility, not only for legal and regulatory work but also for the human resources, IT, business services and the health and safety functions, as well as being secretary to the Union, company secretary and a board director.

Can you tell us about your legal in-house function and how it is structured? How much input do you have in business strategy and governance?

In the legal and regulatory team I have another experienced in-house lawyer working with me, as well as non-lawyers who deal with the discipline system, rugby regulations and administrative support. I am part of the executive team, which plays a key role along with the board in helping to formulate policy and strategy. Legal and other management aspects get factored into that. When the in-house team is quite small, inevitably you get very closely involved in everything that the business does. It is a big attraction.

What is a typical working day for you?

There isn’t a typical day. I can be away on business at various international meetings from time to time, but when I’m in the office I have management meetings and will catch up with the heads of department. Sometimes there is a queue of people at the door, so it can be very unpredictable. The sun comes up in the morning and goes down in the evening and anything could happen in between.

What motivates you on a Monday morning?

I know that I am going to have a busy and interesting week ahead of me. I come in with a rough idea of what is planned, but it can change rapidly. In sport, a lot depends on what occurs over the weekend. What happens on the playing pitch often has an impact on what I do in the week after that. It is rarely dull.

What was the biggest change moving in-house and what do you really enjoy about working in-house?

You have to be very self-reliant and flexible. It is a steep learning curve and you have to adapt and roll up your sleeves. I enjoy the variety and the ability to be involved in influencing the way the organisation does business at the very top level. You get closer to the aims of the organisation and can influence how it works and expands in the future, and be part of that growth. I have been very fortunate with the jobs that I have had and the people I have worked with. You know that you are making a difference.

Has your organisation experienced any major change recently?

There was a seismic shift about 20 years ago when rugby turned professional. We haven’t had anything of that magnitude since. Scottish Rugby was restructured a few years ago and has grown since then, with greater involvement in the professional side of the sport with broadcasters, sponsors and so on.

What makes a good in-house lawyer? What’s your advice for young lawyers who want to start an in-house career?

You need to be willing to operate outside your comfort zone – you never quite know what someone is going to bring along to you next. It doesn’t suit everybody, but if you enjoy flexibility and variety then it can be very fulfilling. If you are starting out I think it is important to try and have a reasonably varied but well-grounded training and not get pigeonholed early on. I would always suggest that if someone is thinking of working in-house, it is a good idea to work in a private firm at some point in order to understand how they work. It is likely that you are going to be dealing with firms as your external advisers, so if you can understand the pressures they have and how they approach the giving of advice, you will have a better knowledge of what you can expect from them later, and what would be an unreasonable thing to ask or expect from any adviser and what wouldn’t.

What do you look for when you seek external legal advice from solicitors or counsel?

I look for a high-quality service at a fair and reasonable cost. Bringing interesting work to really good people helps in terms of the quality, speed of service and engagement that we get. If you work well with your external advisers you get the added value, responsiveness, and willingness to work in the productive fashion that you need. If you manage these relationships well, you get good results.

What are the current hot legal topics in your sector, and how does the future look for in-house lawyers?

FIFA. The integrity of sport is something that is of massive concern to everybody. Some things are so fundamental that you need to be on top of them: player welfare, child protection, anti-doping, anti-corruption and so on. Concussion and head injuries are big issues for us and for World Rugby, and highlight the need to make sure that we are informed and understand the challenges, and address them.

There are far more opportunities in organisations of all kinds for in-house lawyers than ever before, and for a rounded business career being an in-house lawyer is a pretty good place to start. It can open out into other opportunities; I do more things now than I ever thought I would, even as an in-house lawyer.

Does Scottish legal education and training provide the necessary skills for working in-house in your organisation?

In Scotland the engraining of basic concepts and principles of law through university and your legal training equips you pretty well for the core elements. If you are interested in commercial work then a traineeship or a post in a commercial firm is a good thing to try to do. A lot also depends on the size of the firm. If you work for one of the very large global law firms you sometimes run the risk of doing the same type of transaction over and over, and not necessarily getting the variety you might need or want.

How do you think in-house lawyers today are perceived amongst the wider legal profession?

Increasingly, in-house lawyers are part of the management team and there is a greater acceptance that in-house lawyers are adding value. An organisation that has not had in-house lawyers before is an interesting place; the in-house lawyer is there to contribute to making transactions more effective and more efficient, managing risk and not just processing the paperwork.

The In-house Lawyers Group promotes the interests of in-house lawyers; how would you like to see this developing?

There are far more opportunities in-house now than ever before for lawyers compared with the traditional route of coming out of university, doing a traineeship and spending all of your life in law firms. You still do law as an in-house lawyer but in a different way.

What is the most unusual work request you have received?

While I was working for an international company, two newly arrived engineers who didn’t speak English and had just bought new cars, crashed into one another in a housing estate on a dark, wet winter night. They weren’t hurt but didn’t know where they were, and didn’t know what to do. The head of HR and I had to go out and rescue them.

What keeps you busy outside the office?

My kids are young, so family activities and gardening take up most of my time. I play a mix of sport (some skiing, tennis and golf) when I get the chance.

What one thing would you take with you to a desert island? What one thing would you put in Room 101?

I would take a “please do not disturb” sign. You are never really out of the office these days with mobile phones and emails. I can get a phone call at any time, depending on where my colleagues happen to be. In Room 101 I would definitely put the “Reply to all” and “Cc” buttons!